A practical look at the changes to the level 60 Draconian Mines
by Specialist_AKA_Specs
This week Battle Pirates changed the level 60 mining bases to bring their damage more in line with the parts they gave out. These targets were instant repair for almost every siege fleet. Now players are reporting substantially more damage. Without knowing the builds, they are using, how they are driving, or are they auto hitting the targets. I do not have my vindicators to crusaders, so I had to use Punisher. My Punisher fleet is still not refitted from the 107 FM target.
Upset is an understatement
Players are rightfully angry at the sudden change. These targets were a free repair. We were told that a change would be coming months ago when they changed them the first time. That knowledge does nothing to take the sting out of having something you were doing all day for no real consequence taken away with what many players felt was faulty reasoning. The change is here, though, and we have to find a way to deal with that. The target pays out 23,000 base parts. These parts are only useable to refit your buildings in the base. So you can add modules, armor, specials and turret weapons to buildings and stands. Each base part equals one second of time reduction so that means a single 60 will get you a savings of 6 hours. If you deduct your repair time, you will get the amount that you have profited by doing this part of the game. You do not have to coin these repairs to realize the benefit for trading repair time for build time reduction. You will see in my videos that I am trading 30 minutes of repair time (I can speed repair the last 5 minutes for free) for Six hours or reduction to fitting armors to my turret stands. That, in my opinion, is a great trade off, yes your mileage may vary.
As far as this target goes, it is mostly Ballistic damage with some Radiation damage tossed in. The Radiation damage mostly comes from a Wendigo type target. From memory, this one turret caused most of my damage to my Crusader fleet when I had it going. So, I would always run with an Aegis or Frostburn to negate it almost fully. I am not 100% sure yet if I will build two vindicator and 2 crusader to attempt these targets. I will share the builds I have in mind so that my readers can determine if they are able to make the change. The videos today will show me driving 3 Punishers and Frostburn in the first one. The second video will be Frostburn and Punisher. The last video is just a single Punisher. The build will be at the end of this article. You will notice that my build is not even remotely optimize for these targets, yet my punisher fleet can do them for 32 to 34 minutes of damage.
I would build no more than 2 of each of those, though, you do not need more than that. To do the targets in question and it will lower your repair time. Of course, you could do 4 of each and then run them until dead and repair them all at one time after you do as many targets as you can fit in.
I hope that you find this educational and helpful in navigating these changes.
The next three targets are quite a step up from the first three. While I could see with patience, rockets (Bunker Buster XL) a good tank and some mortar fleets you could do the first prize pack and claim the Revenge. The weapon is going to be a tougher task. You are going to want conquerer hulls for this award package. I used Spites, and it was not so hard, but You will want to have a mixture of fleets and probably some coin as it is only a two-hour window. That window is the largest hurdle to any low level and mid-level players. I will give a sample build for the revenge at the end of this article that does not use the Gatling Gun.
Target 4
I lagged some hitting these bases, so I was happy I had a fleet that could hold up well. The targets are fragile against missile, and I hear they are strong against mortars. You might want to keep that in mind as you hit them. As you can see the target has a glacial, excellent frontline many Level 7 stands that are fully built. I made it through with three coins of damage and small wait time.
Target 5
This target was more damage than the other by almost 100%. I am not sure how much was the lag and the fact that I was just trying to get through the target. I made it through for seven coins and a little repair time.
Target 6
This base was the hardest of the six so far. I did manage it with a single hit, and you can see that I stopped a few times by I am not 100% sure what. It was the longest repair at 6 hours 19 minutes. So far for the six targets, I am 23 coins spent, and I am confident I will double that the next set with the difficulty of the targets ramping up. With any luck, these videos and pictures can help you where I have failed and lower your repair time/cost considerably.
Here is some sample Revenge that will assist get you started on hitting bases. They will not crack top end bases, but they should help you get going and learn the greater skill of hitting. Maybe you can learn to patience when I do not always have :)
I am in the process of trying to get some other videos of people do these targets with different fleets. If I get them I will update this article as soon as I am able.
This week Battle Pirates gives us another shot at earning the first Conquerer Hull the Revenge! This hull was a nuisance to many when it first came out, featured the first weapon that could match Enforcers out range our frontline turrets with careful driving and just play havoc on our bases. The first prize pack features three bases, and the player can win the Revenge and one day builds revenge token.
First Base
The first base is pretty straightforward. No defense fleet. Everything is nicely packed in perfect for a mortar fleet to go through with little trouble. Any weapon will do well in this base, and you could use Punishers, Citadels, DNX, Nova, just about anything to remove this base from your list quickly.
Second Base
The second base is a little more of a challenge for players. It features a Wendigo turret, so if you can bring in a Frostburn or Aegis, you can mitigate the ice patches efficiently. This target features a single Behemoth that can be out ranged with missiles, and you could possible out the range with D98 if you drive carefully enough. It has a nice mix of midrange defense turrets in the Jav and Brimstone, otherwise not too bad. You could do it with some coin or time repair with a Punisher lead and some DNX, or Nova behind you. Add in the Frostburn and Aegis to trail just behind the tank so that you can remove the threat of that Wendigo Turret and its ice field.
Third Base
The last base is a bit tougher for your punisher fleets. It can be done, but you are going to take damage and probably have to coin depending on your time it takes to repair. This target has a Hunter with missiles, a Behemoth as well. It also features Pyro turrets, Executioners, Basilisk turrets. You could do this with a couple of Punisher tanks and your DNX/Nova behind taking care not to damage the mortar fleets and just repair your tanks.
Of course, these targets would be easier if you have any conqueror hull.
Video of Barney Rubble doing part of the First prize pack.
Barney was kind enough to get a video of him doing the targets until he died. You will see that he used Punishers and struggled a little bit. He did finish it with using a Frostburn to deal with the ice patches.
Edit to add: From barney on how he completed the first prize pack to get the Revenge in his words
My rockets were not very effective in the second and third base at taking out the heavy hitting targets, but was not using Bunker buster XL, for my final two rushes I used 2star molotov with two Novastorm 2 punisher and frosty to clear my way through the first turn before dying. Came back with some partial Rhinos and Punisher and hit the corner near the Outpost with a Long Pinch, stopped my Rhino in mid channel in range and ran the punisher's around the missiles even at max range cleared it all out. (BarneyRubble)
I will try to get a few more videos of low level and mid level fleets hitting these targets. For now, I hope this helps you at least formulate an attack plan of your own.
BP Peeping Thomas.... Sneaking peeks at some options for the 109...
By: George Argyropoulos
a/k/a Dragon_Bane
So we have had the 109 available for several weeks now. As some of you have seen already, I have been playing with these quite a bit.
While the original attempts revolved around a nice collaboration with Cesar, a/k/a Latino_el_Vato_Loco on the TFC page. We got some really stupid low numbers for the 109's. Both of us got under 30 min of damage using crews and conqueror hulls... however, given the rumors that conqueror hulls could be barred to PvE targets I am going to forgo our little tests and concentrate on Pun tanks and Hcit/Cit combinations. If I can get the time or the coins, I will try to get some other tanks built to test, but as of right now, I have neither the coins nor the time to dedicate to alternative builds. Battle pirates on BV touched briefly upon this in their Saturday show as well on the back half of the program.
So... on to options...
After several tests I came up with two decent (not perfect) tank builds that revolve around the Punisher hull. They are listed on the TFC Punisher build page and you can always see them right here in our article.
For some reason, even though the resistances are very similar, I get better results with the Punisher No. 1 over Punisher No. 2.
So, now that we see our friendly neighborhood Punisher... wait, that's not right... but our first glimpse was in fact in... Oh.. sorry, comic tangent....anyway- We have met our tanks, now what are the heavies that can follow them?
The first one and my absolute TOP recommended option? The Harlock's Citadel.
I use mine in my base defense and had to actually refit it and weaken it in order to use it for my FM. Please, PLEASE Kixeye... allow us to hold and build more than one. I know I build odd stuff from time to time, but I also like to build niche on occasion.... let us.
[WARNING!! TANGENTIAL RANT!!] Dear Kixeye... you have already started hobbling us with the Hull Class differentiation, you have made the build times of these new Flag ships excessive (at best) and you've also limited their bonuses to the same line of hull as well rather than a general boost as was previous convention. Do we really need limits on amounts as well? Particularly given the costs associated with earning these hulls? P-p-p-p-p-p-p-please increase the max. There may or may not be bacon in it for you...
So, what can this hull do that makes me put this single hull at the top of my list? Well, how's about this - Using Pun No. 2 and just the Hcit with a Sea Serpents crew, the first run netted 1 hour 9 minutes of damage. One hit. As you can see, it was NOT a perfect run. I screwed up right at the start, however, it was good enough that I didn't bother with another try.
Look, I know the odds are the love of my life isn't going to magically walk through that door in a pumpkin costume at... 2:43 in the morning. But it just seems as nice a spot as any to just, you know, sit and wait.... oh... wrong show... Sorry Ted....
So on to the second string. This would be the Cits. Sadly, I have not finished my Cit builds as yet. They are both shy of specials which made the next video very disappointing. Once the Siege Battery and Splash Upgrade specials are added I have no doubt the damage times are going to come down. I will likely re-publish this same article in a week or two with an update on using three cits with a
Savage lead and a Punisher Tank. So, here are just the two Citadels, not Savage, using an SS crew:
I was going to have one tonight, but it seems some TRCS were sore about getting shiny bubbles so they decided they wanted to snipe FM fleets. Classy as always guys. ;) Sadly, that ruined a couple runs I wanted to make, so... First we will see what happens when these almost-finished Cits run behind a tank with an SS crew. This would have been better with a Savage lead, but... not too impressive. 1 hour 48 minutes damage:
Then we add that lovely beast of a Harlock's Citadel to the mix (the eventual builds are in the vid description), with an SS crew again and we get a paltry 48 minutes of damage. Nice, right?
And just for screwing around.... 35 minutes of damage with only 2 boats?? Yes, this was a fun screwing around run, but it showcases that lovely Hcit powah!! I doubt very much I'm going to spend the time to roll this bloody crew all the time to do my FM though...
So, we see a lot of good things here. And if you have your old 107 Punisher fleet that has Arblests or Launchers on them? Never fear...
So. This is what I've been working on for a while. I think the damage will come down a bit more with the full build. I doubt I need a 3rd cit in there but I am building one to see how they run without the Hcit.
Sadly, I can't spend time on alternatives because I just can't afford that. I do have a Neptune build HERE and this week on Friday's Battle Pirates Crib show, we'll be discussing tank builds for all. Also, I would LOVE to see some new faces show up for The Forsaken Council open mike on Saturday, particularly some more non-coiners so we can get a good mix of players and opinions during the open mike. We could be discussing this, or... anything else that may come up during the week! Hope this helped a few of you or at least entertained you!
This week we have one question that does involve build advice. It concerns building for Forsaken mission or raids.
Slacker said:
I have an ask Specs question: Will next month's raid be the same as this months? I ask because I built HW's to do the 30/50/70 reaver armadas then did some refitting to Charon torps and diff armor after last month's raid and now this month I need my twisters back and diff armor again. Should I refit back to twisters and X armor? Or will next month be a different target set again? Or maybe I should build Citadels? Or maybe I should build some base hitters? Or maybe I should build some defense ships? It would be nice if the REDUCTION of ship build time was brought to the table again. I mean BIG TIME reduction, not this measly 4 percent. I won a Harlock Citadel and the build time on that alone is RIDICULOUS. Thanks, Specs.
Dear Slacker,
I cannot answer that question as they have not told us what next month will be. I will inform you that if you read the article and take a look at the Hellwraith build, I am using this raid and try to match that you will be in a right spot. Go with the Twisters and D1-X or D2-X depending on what you have available is what I would do.
While the Citadels are nice for the FM, if you are already getting to T4 or T5 without them, I would not worry just yet and get your raid fleet together. If you are not going with this least T4 in the FM twice a week, then I would get that FM fleet built as those tokens in T4 help non-coiners get their builds done in a timely fashion. I tell everyone to prioritize FM over raids for this reason, so not sure where you are game wise but the FM should be your first concern.
What next month brings, though, will depend on to a great part how this one goes. If the players enjoyed it and participation is up compared to last month. I think we have a good chance to see this similar raid targets next raid with some tweaks.
Barney Quote of the Day: "We should totally buy a bar. Our bar would be awesome. And dude, dude, dude, dude... the name of our bar... Puzzles."
And the puzzle is....
Jon:
Have not hit the T5 targets, been concentrating on cracking the puzzle that is 105. I think I am close to that and you can see in my latest video that I got it down to just over one fleet. I am not the best sub driver I am too impatient for this style of raid. However, I can fully see that the powers that be listened to the players and created an event that is more balanced towards skill. If you can drive correctly, you can do the 105 for 0 damage. I tried to catch the one gentlemen in my sector using Tigers to do the 105; he had to reenter the target a few times, and he only lost the fleet twice. So, it is possible to do the 105 using the right path and to crack that puzzle. I will try to get him to video it or let me video him today if I see him.
George:
Ah, Puzzles, it was a fun bar. So.... why are we harping on the puzzle theme? Because the devs have built a puzzle into each target. I have hit one of each of the A set targets, however, it was with my HW's as I only have one TS fully built. I did try the Tiger, and it did ok, but was phenomenally slow in killing targets (I have Charon torps equipped).
The theory is the same in the A sets as it is in the S set targets. Patience and control are KEY. I have to admit, it has been a long time since I drove subs with any regularity. As some may remember, last raid I just split my subs up and straight blitzed the targets. It was a popular method. This time, the method is a complete 180 degree turn.
In the first hour of the raid I made a video of a 105 hit using a GM crew for a 2 coin repair. Lots of people watched it, lots had questions, lots wanted the build. I have a new video that is posted in here, on TFC and the BP Crib. It is a perfect run (barring the loss of the corvette) in one shot. Doubt I can do it again. I am averaging 18-28 minutes of damage now IF I don't lag out or screw up. Grease Monkey crews are still your friend in this raid.
What you need to succeed in the raid.
Jon:
88 range Torps, honest that is about it. My stealth is 89%, combat speed is not so much of a boon this time as you need to stop on a dime to not trigger the thermal. You can get by without the heavy armor as you can avoid much of the damage with perfect driving. So, the main thing that new and mid-level players should take from this raid is the Charon torp. As I said in the first paragraph, a gentleman in my sector is using Tiger and Charon and doing the 105. He has to spend a bit more time on it, but he is doing them with about the same number of fleets as the bad drivers are with Hellwraith and Firetwister.
My build for this raid:
Yes, I made a refit after the preview server with what I felt would be better this raid, and glad I did because it lowered my repair time by a lot. From 11 coins from full dead to 7 coins total dead, so that is an excellent saving compared to how I did in the preview. With a GM crew, my cost per 105 as of this morning is 8 to 9 coin. Seven coins for the first attack and then 1 to 2 coin on the second.
Videos First one is my second attempt, the second one is when I was still learning the targets
If you watch my video, you notice that I try to get to the north side as soon as I can. This maneuver is because I want to have time to attack them without the drones being a concern. I also try to take the Hulk out as I move north, getting this part down much better after the video to the point where it is 25 minutes of damage on my second fleet after I lose the first. Once I get to the top of the map, I can then approach the last Hulk from the front and take it out no issue. On the way, I get the priority ships so that I get the full point value for the target.
Scouts:
The scouts are the main damage dealers, mostly not because of the torps they have, but because there thermal is around 90 range (just outside my 88 torps). If there are drones around they will fire their toprs and with the scouts torps can make short work of any sub. If you watch the video pay attention to how I attempt to approach the scouts. If you can strafe them (run 90 degrees with them) you can hit them without triggering the yellow rings or the thermal that can cause you much damage.
George:
I can't add much to Jon's assessment. When he says the key is the 88 range torpedoes, it really is. The balance between your torpedo range and the thermal range is hairline.
My build is below. I had a few people complain that my build was made with foresight from the test server. In actuality, I added more twisters in and took armor off immediately after last raid as I wanted a dead fleet to be an even repair with a GM crew. This build was meant for the split blitz, it happens to work extremely well in these targets as well, though a bit difficult to drive. As Jon mentioned above, speed is not necessarily a boon in these targets.
Yes, you see that correctly, that is 3 D1-X's. It comes out to a 3 coin repair with a GM crew when dead. Perfect for the last raid the way I was doing the targets.
I also have two videos made. One has circulated pretty heavily and can be found on my YouTube channel, the other is the perfect run found here. I doubt I'll be able to reproduce this again...:
This is my original run in a 105. Annotated. ;)
Edit: I was talking with a few people and suggested that 2 HWs may have been easier due to the stacking issue seen in this vid. Truth be told, the stacking issue is REALLY an issue, but WhiteBeard let me share his vid of doing a 105 for zero damage with only 2 HW's. You do run the risk of getting sniped but the driving seems a lot easier that trying to wrangle 4 subs that won't stay together. Thanks WhiteBeard!!!
New and Mid level players that are behind:
Jon:
If I was new to the game, or struggling non-coiner I would see this weekend if someone could help me with Tier 4 co-op. That one feature is quite nice this raid as we got co-op back to help low levels at least get the tiger shark and Charon torps. I would definitely try to get the first three prizes in thesub side of the list. You need 9 tier 4 sets, just make sure you enter first and try not to die while in the target. Two players with Cuda or Spectres could do T4 targets I think with some good driving. Worse case the players might be able to get someone that finishes their raid to help them with a few preps. Charons is the most important item to get out of this raid for new players and those mid levels that do not have it yet.
George:
Most people hate this advice, and hate that I Merc, but the quickest and cheapest way to catch up is generally to hire a Merc IF you can't do it on your own.
If you are a non-coiner, plan on taking your time in any target you attempt. Don't worry if you time out. Get the Charon or Twister torpedoes. I have NOT tried any other targets so I am unsure of your grinding options.
Summary:
Jon:
Get the Charon if you do not have it. Then go for the Tigers if you are pressed for time, or the ability to get the points for the Hellwraith. Doing those first two points will put in you in a better position to grab the hellwraith in November to prepare for the hull store. Learn to drive your subs as that perfect driving will help you in the raid format and let you use Tigers to do the 105. Watch the videos on youtube from those that have it figured it out. Best case we do not get many changes next raid format and this education will help you lower the learning curve in November. While building your fleets keep your build time to a max of 14 days per hull. This allows you to get two built between raids coin free.
Lastly, this is not a Mario Bros raid where you rush to the end as fast as you can kill the boss and move on. It is more like you are Snake from Metal Gear, hiding in the shadows waiting to strike at the correct time.
Thank you for reading and comment below if you wish
Good luck with the rest of the raid Captains! (always wanted to say that, welcome back Swag!)
George:
What he said. I will add, I REALLY wish they had added last raid's S targets, in some form. There is something to be said to being able to do an S target in 3-4 minutes. And it would break the monotony and not need a second fleet to do. The other thing I'd like to note is that this raid has made subs binary again. Not a good step and not a good trade off when you have to be fully repaired to launch. Anyway... Good luck all!!
Post publication notice: We forgot to mention - When doing the 105's, always kill off the drones after killing the hulks and leave a scout for last, OR leave a Scout or Hades alive when you time out. IF YOU TIME OUT WITH ONLY DRONES LEFT YOU DO NOT GET THE COMPLETION BONUS!!!!
Tonight we got to see a glimpse at the direction the team is taking the October Raid. While the targets are not finalized and in no way should you expect what you see or read about here to be the final working target. George and I wanted to share our thoughts and with the blessings of CM DoomRooster and GD Raikan what we saw and recorded today.
REMEMBER THIS IS NOT THE FINAL PRODUCT, AND THESE TARGETS WILL BE MORE THAN LIKELY DIFFERENT BY RAID.
The goal here is to show you with video proof that various fleets with different builds could do the targets as they are designed. Which you will hopefully agree that they made a giant step in the right direction with the ideas they are putting together leading up to this Raid.
Jon:
First I wanted to try the largest target with my HellWraith. I did not make any changes from the build I used in September raid as I wanted to see how they would hold up with the new targets. This fleet was able to do the TLC and the 114/112 with massive coining. I still have not claimed my phantom HellWraith because I just do not want to part with the coin yet with the raid so close. I might try to get it and then build it based on what I saw others doing in the preview. I also did a level 75 target with the same hell wraith fleet.
Hellwraith Build
Second I wanted to show a Spectre fleet doing the raid with just technology received from the Forsaken Missions. I do not think I used anything from the raids or higher than Tier 4 in the weekly. I understand that not everyone will be able to receive all these prizes this raid. I also understand that you might not have the phantom Spectre. For what it is worth I do feel the lowest tier will be possible without a 5th sub. I did one video with 0 ranks and another with full rank. The difference between the two was stark. The no rank would take a bit more time, but at full rank, you could do the target in one hit.
Spectre Build
The last thing I wanted to do was use my Tiger fleet to take a level 57. I used what I already had built, and it is a typical Tiger fleet that many will have. It was fully ranked and had 4x Cobra scattergun on one sub.
Tiger Build
Now, I would think (and I could be wrong on my assumption) the level 35 should be Tier 3, 57 will be Tier 4, 75 would be Tier 5, and the 105 will be Tier 6. So the fleets I used to tackle each of the targets should be what you are striving for in the coming raid.
Video of my fleets in action
Jon: Last thoughts
I did thoroughly enjoy the targets compared to the previous VXP weekend targets, the TLC targets. I would rate them a solid 4 out of 5 on the fun factor, with a five given if the point payout to coin spent is in line with what I expect. I know that the targets could change in the coming week, and I expect them to tweak them. However, the way the target flowed, the way my fleets handled them (even with all my mistakes) gives me hope that we are not looking at Scourge redeux.
George:
I am going to avoid getting into anything with specificity. I do have some pics and my build and a few notes to add. ALL THE TARGET INFO IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE.
First, I tried all the targets with just my HW's due to time.
So, we did get a peek at several levels and since Jon has the 105 covered, Here are the 57 and 75.
57
75
What I saw was a very promising change from the TLC targets we have all.... uh... loved. Yea, we loved them... lol.
I am going to avoid saying anything in particular on the targets because the are still being worked on. I CAN say that I enjoyed them far more than the TLC version. They are doable and they do require some skill. I think they are still going to be polarizing because of the simple fact that Subs are a polarizing mechanic.
I will say this as well, one thing that goes hand in hand with a skill requirement is a time investment per target and a 'heightened attention' requirement form the player. I am leery of this only because I know how many players play, particularly during raids. The following is my run in a 75 level target. My concern lies with this: the time it takes to 'skill' through the target. You can clearly see when my patience runs out while doing this target. I truly hope this issue is one that gets some attention before the next raid starts:
That said, I have to say this was a very good change of direction. I feel this is a positive change and offering if this is indicative of things going forward. Let's hope this trend continues!
